Dear Close-Minded Atheist Hater

Dear Close-Minded Atheist Hater:

Of course atheists will live up to your bad expectations if you don’t give them the benefit of the doubt. No individual will counter your bad opinion of the group they belong to if you interpret every action of theirs in the worst light possible. If you take their condemnation of bad thing #1 and bad thing #2 to mean that they’re okay with bad thing #3. If they call you out on twisting their words, and you counter by saying that no one in their group needs your help in the twisting of words (oh look, victim blaming!). If you make absurd leaps in “logic” to take their position on a matter of fact to mean that they advocate <insert barely related horrible thing here>, and you say that their group is so awful because they are okay with <horrible thing> (hint: saying that people you hate advocate <insert horrible thing here> doesn’t make it so). If you act incredulous when they state that they do, in fact, have a problem with it when your group is the one being harmed. If, in fact, you generally assume they are the scum of the Earth, no matter how they act.

If you repeatedly fail to provide requested sources to back up your assertions, except to say that it is obvious that <vaguely referenced thing open to interpretation> is an example. If you then make fun of them when they say they hadn’t seen your interpretation of that vaguely referenced thing before. If you resort to insults because you don’t actually have good counter-arguments. If you resort to such petty tactics as modifying their comments to put a “[sic]” in after every typo or misspelling you can find. If you insert your own responses into the middle of their comments, so that no one can read their comment without seeing your response immediately. If you make assumptions about their position on a subject that hasn’t even been addressed. If you close comments after a day with a smug, sanctimonious exclamation that the atheists have proved your point about them.

Then you’re just making yourself look bad. You’re conceding that you don’t have good responses to their points by deflecting instead of engaging. You’re making it painfully obvious that you are unwilling to change your mind no matter what anyone says. The people you’re arguing against should take it as a compliment that you are failing so badly in countering their points that you resort to such tactics as deflection, insult, and deliberate (and obvious!) misrepresentation.

And it’s hilarious that you seem to think you’re the one who came off better in this interaction.

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12 thoughts on “Dear Close-Minded Atheist Hater

  1. That is true so often. If we could just accept one another without trying to prove our point. Obviously we all are not going to agree. Yet we can at least respect each other and discuss our views without calling each other names and being mean and disrespectful.

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    • Hi DonewithReligion, it appears to me that when you wrote “at least respect each other and discuss our views without calling each other names and being mean and disrespectful” your comment really should have been directed at Skies’ post rather than their overall sentiment, now, whoever “atheists hater” is (or whether it’s simply an open letter) is kind of irrelevant to my point, although a later blog they’ve linked readers to is probably the best answer to the question. Rather what is relevant is the way in which Skies tries to deal with their conflict (by ranting, rudeness and accusations). I personally enjoy exchanges with Alex and understand if ever they or I write anything sarcastic or seemingly offensive that’s either part of a defect in our character, or a mistake of the reader’s imagination, seeing hostility where it isn’t. Still to vent in the above way isn’t a two way conversation, no differences are hammered out and no friendships formed by its sort.

      You want respect, generosity of spirit and politeness, not accusations at a certain unnamed someone and bitter taunts of “it’s hilarious that you think you have won!” (To paraphrase). Surely if you and I want politeness in people the first thing we should do is point out when someone is writing in an accusatory and plainly impolite manner, which wouldn’t necessarily mean dismantling or dismissing their self worth (nor inflating our own), wouldn’t you agree? Yet in order to do that would mean pointing out rudeness in every form (including forms or by way of people we may like). Wouldn’t there be something manifestly unloving in writing people of all varieties should “accept one another without trying to prove our point” when to not prove your point may indeed lead to a wealth of human misery?

      For example, for you to fail at convincing a person of the value and saving potential of Christ’s sacrifice upon the cross may mean (unless you’re a Universalist) that they close the door on Jesus forever, doing irrevocably harm. Clearly this is a pearls before swine situation, and not wanting to make the cross something hated means sometimes taking one’s foot off of the peddle, or realizing that humanity, belonging to a fallen world, simply aren’t always open to God’s promise of salvation. So, is it fair to say to not prove your point, or even not to try, isn’t always an act of love, but rather an abandonment of one’s duty to love by a genuine love? It’s always easier for the disinterested to give the hungry a fish instead of a fishing lesson, the alcoholic a bottle and an addict their needle.

      Arguing a point isn’t to hate or deny people their worth, how it’s done certainly may belittle or humiliate the person you’re writing to, however to simply raise the doubt or bring the questions isn’t anything to fear. It’s not unloving for an abolitionist to reject the position of a slave trader, that doesn’t mean the first man rejects the second’s humanity or intrinsic dignity however, they’re merely arguing a point (a point which may affirm every person’s dignity). You seem to have thought likewise when you explained: “Yet we can at least respect each other and discuss our views without calling each other names and being mean and disrespectful.” That’s very true, which is why the post title reading “closed minded” is such a treat, as it’s just name calling! Bigoted, racist, sexist, transphobic etc, they’re just insults in the mouths of many modern people. Let’s just go through a fraction of the above, “atheist hater”, be they taken as an actual person or a certain sort of person, is to be recognized immediately as:

      Hateful.
      Close-minded.
      Deceptive.
      Illogical.
      They also believe people are “scum of the earth” regardless of their good behaviour.

      Just to take the above post at face value means believing in this wealth of character assassination. Yet you haven’t noted how such a spirit, even a retaliatory spirit, is wholly destructive. You’re instead giving Skies a free pass to do or behave in an inflammatory way which you’d be offended by if found in someone else merely due to how Alex portrayed the interaction (they presuming they are the victim). Of course they’re a victim in many situations, they’re also a felon however, to minimize one aspect and maximize the other isn’t appropriate, that’ll destroy a person’s accurate perspective. Who is the victim and who’s the victimizer isn’t always so simple as people would have others believe (so why the naive concession as if to say how they picture the situation is actually the situation?).

      For example, Ukrainian serial killer Anatoly Onoprienko (AKA The Terminator) was found guilty of murdering 52 people over a six year period, they’d mauled a mother and daughter to death with a hammer, murdered entire families, killed children, just terrible crimes. Yet when they were finally caught their reply was something to the effect of: ‘seventy percent of those brought up in orphanages end up in prison as adults.’ Onoprienko, who clearly was raised in an orphanage, says they were the REAL victim all along! While you and I were clumsily concerned with the first family he had murdered (which included 8 children) we ought to have been lavishing our concern on their murderer. Of course Onoprienko’s idea that everything from his first date to first murder was already predetermined, meaning they had no real choice in slaying defenceless women and children, is absurd. Regardless of how passionately or persuasively they could make their case they’d simply been in the wrong. Meaning they given the context had been the victimizer, and such people as those who they hounded the victims. To reply to their complaint by saying “that’s so true” with regards to how orphanages have failed their children is factually correct, yet insofar as morality is concerned it is cowardice. Cowardice because it’s left out the difficult issues for the soft soap and the need to look inward with a desire to blame outward. When you agree with Skies (as you do in many many . . . many posts) you’re helping them to vilify a certain type of person they have in their mind, a person who may or may not be deserving of such vilification. You gained their agreement, not their respect.

      Let me see if I’m interpreting your last message properly, then you’re open to either correct or agree as you see it appropriate. You wrote: “If we could just accept one another without trying to prove our point. Obviously we all are not going to agree.” With which you conclude disagreeing doesn’t mean being mean or rude etc, yet, certain sides of the conversation would be quick to suppose by you merely disagreeing over a certain issue shows you to be an unrepentant bigot in need of retraining! A great example of the above is the use of Islamophobia in popular culture. To object or criticize Islam, meaning the religious materials, doctrines and injunctions put upon Muslims, is today considered a mean, rude, impolite and hateful attack against a person who identifies as a Muslim. Much like how Alex writes on mean, rude, impolite and hateful attacks (be they in print or person) which they believe having impacted their life. Therefore to even raise the argument (regardless of how good natured it’s done) is interpreted as being against a person’s very right to exist. Appears to me that you have reacted to this behaviour by going into retreat (which would be thoroughly unloving). Of course you yourself can clarify if you find anything unsympathetic or in need of grappling with with regards to my observations.

      Given an ancient background, such a background as wherein certain Bible books are best read, Paul wasn’t being bigoted or anti Jewish when they quoted Isaiah in saying: ‘They hatch the eggs of vipers and spin a spider’s web. Whoever eats their eggs will die, and when one is broken, an adder is hatched.’ Rather than being character assassination their words were character illumination! Similarly Jesus’ cleansing of the Temple, which would be interpreted as mean and illegal by modern people, wasn’t an act of denying a person their humanity, about which you’d surely agree.

      In closing, because I have been reading (and thoroughly enjoying) your blog posts, you’ve written something often which myself and others would surely take issue with, and given the fact we both find the love of God and faith without institutions reasonable (even attractive) prospects, I thought it an interesting thing to discuss. You often write “accept”, which to me is so interesting, as to “tolerate” implies not approving, now people like myself would say they’re prepared to tolerate certain behaviours (i.e homosexual intimacy, adultery, polyamory). Moreover we’d be willing to defend why we believe the things we say are the more loving alternative to the person who says they’re pro-gay, pro-transgender etc. You however write to accept on a regular basis, which only really allows for two commonplace definitions:

      [1] consent to receive or undertake (something offered).

      [2] believe or come to recognize (a proposition) as valid or correct.

      So, by way of the two definitions you could understand why people might consider you endorsing or even promoting their behaviours, meaning for you to write you accept X, Y or Z to the listener means you accept their views with regards to their own person, rather than you accepting your view with regards to their person (there’s nothing controversial about accepting your own views after all). Therefore, when you say “I accept you” to a person who in their own mind identifies as being same sex attracted from birth, although merely meaning to explain (though not explaining) you accept them insofar as they’re valued and lovingly made in the image of God, you’ve actually entrenched the person deeper in their ideas. You have if the above is the case immunized people against their need for Jesus.

      By “accepting” a person who identifies as same sex attracted (as opposed to saying you tolerate their behaviour) you’re allowing in their mind a licence to sin. Of course because you have accepted their stance on the issue their behaviour is no longer sin in their minds, nor is there even an outsider opinion (AKA a Christian opinion) on inconvenient sins even existing, instead popular culture would be defining acceptable and unacceptable forms of behaviour (hence writing out crimes against ourselves and God). Again strict Islamic cultures provide a working example of the above, as in their society there is no child abuse to be discerned (abusers marry children), there’s no rape evident (the rape victim needs several male witness so are mostly unable to go to court), there’s no mean quarrelling due to dissent of the pure faith (apostates are murdered for which nobody leaves). Sin is in large part made a non issue, with which apologists for Islam can point to our Western cultures and say “Look at the child abuse statistics!”

      Of course child abuse is an issue (Western nation actually record these things), as are various sex issues, as is a person misusing their Bible so to enslave, murder or abuse their fellow human being whilst shielding themselves behind private “interpretation” (as if to say they employed their interpretation with some masterful grasp of hermeneutics). Yet you also defend the mass of interpretations in popular culture, no? Why defend the many false interpretations of text, some of which aren’t born out of ignorance but a self serving desire to control people. From your material it appears none too self-serving or absurdly inaccurate to deserve being shown up by us proving another reading superior, a desire to prove our point can be dangerous apparently.

      ‘God catches His fish before He cleans them.’ People say, for which to accept their human dignity, or that they’re made in the very image of God, is something you and I agree on, moreover God says to come as you are (not to stay that way though). So, is there any point at which we continue reading Matthew 7, since after reading “Judge not” and “remove the speck” we’re told then to help our brother out of their sin, meaning any log that isn’t in my eye I’m prepared to remove from another person’s. To complain that I’m behaving as the Pharisees for correcting or meeting in debate a culture of people who often wish to destroy the knowledge of God from the public space is absurd. Meaning people should be going above the norm and even asking a person in good faith to exit their various harmful lifestyles, their many prejudices and their false religion, shouldn’t they?

      Murky is to the best of my wording how I would describe your position after having read a great deal of your material, which doesn’t mean your position is unclear in your mind, rather that it’s obscured to a far greater degree than needs be. Would you celebrate a gay wedding, or make a toast to the happy groom and his husband? Is that acceptance as you often write? Just for an example. Or would you accept and not raise questions with regards to women whose choice it is to slay the unborn life developing inside of themselves, because to do otherwise would speedily be made into an occasion where you might be called upon to prove some point (i.e The sanctity of life/when does the developing fetus deserve to be called truly human).

      Yet you write “Lets not be overly focused on proving our views, let’s just value each other” (an unproven view!). Your message presupposes value which others had to argue for, others, braver men than you or I, couldn’t casually write “Let’s not be overly focused on proving our points, let’s just value each other”, they couldn’t do that because their entire point was that people have value. That was the challenge, and to fail to prove it would result in you not having the comfortable situation to write so high mindedly about valuing. To value Alex, as I do, is only possible because I suppose they are of value, and I suppose they are of value because I believe they’re made in the likeness of God. It’s because God loves, creates with value and cares that we can justifiably love one another too. Without God our love is just arbitrary and relative. Alex loves and values people too, though it’s not fair to lie to them and say in a universe without God we’d love as like in a universe with Him, that’s not true.

      Also, there’s really so much of your material which I agree with that the overall tone of my post could throw you off balance, don’t let it. The above is a drop in an ocean of material by which we would find agreement. Nevertheless, I’d sooner hammer out an interesting difference than flog a dead agreement.

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      • “I personally enjoy exchanges with Alex”

        If you would like to continue these exchanges then kindly stop trying to drag other people into them whenever there has been a lull in my responses.

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      • Thank you oldschool for your informative reply. I appreciate the remarks you made about reading my articles and enjoying some, and I understand the differences and not agreeing on everything. I appreciate you taking the time to read the articles and to reply.

        Liked by 1 person

        • To AB: Despite referencing your above article, which of course should be up for conversation considering the public nature of the thing, I’m not so sure how I’ve dragged DWR into any of our previous exchanges. Anyhow, if you would prefer I continue writing to DWR without mentioning you in any wise that’s perfectly alright. I shall continue interacting with DoneWithReligion as my initial message has done, moreover I look forward to any further challenges or questions you have about Biblical Christianity.

          “Thank you oldschool for your informative reply. I appreciate the remarks you made about reading my articles and enjoying some, and I understand the differences and not agreeing on everything. I appreciate you taking the time to read the articles and to reply.”

          To DWR: And thank you for the gentlemanly reply, however, you’ve acknowledged my post exists, but not engaged with any of its substance. You can imagine how frustrating/confusing/annoying such behavior could possibly be, right? As it’s to interact with people that shows someone is truly interested, whereas ignoring their points and writing what looks a canned reply shows disinterest. Writing a letter of complaint to some big business only to be met by a reply of “We value your input, here’s a free sample.” isn’t appropriate, especially when the free sample contains everything you complained about in your previous letter.

          Reading 1 Peter chapter three explains: ‘Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear their threats; do not be frightened.” But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,’

          OSC: In the Greek “reason” in the above would be translated as “apologia”, from which we get the now hated word “apologist”, of course people in the unbelieving camp tend to say or write certain words with disgust or hatred so that the emotive force of their anger might dissuade people from disagreeing with their preferred mode of thought. And as the above says people are going to harm you, in fact, my life has never been so beset by conflict as when I first said something so simple as “I believe Jesus was who He said He was.” The Gospel needn’t be said with hatred, force of voice or condemnation of spirit, you’re going to be met by hatred, force of voice and condemnation nonetheless. Have you too experienced this reaction? Now, my point isn’t to write you lack gentleness, nor respect, rather that insofar as I have read you’re refusing to give an apologia or a defence for the reasons you believe. Could you perhaps link me to one example of when you have given an answer for the hope that’s within you online? That would be very interesting to read. In addition, your reply has ignored many of my questions, due to which I’m going to post a few once more:

          (1) Wouldn’t there be something manifestly unloving in writing people of all varieties should “accept one another without trying to prove our point” when to not prove your point may indeed lead to a wealth of human misery? (The Quakers opposition to slavery comes to mind).

          (2) Would you celebrate a gay wedding, or make a toast to the happy groom and his husband? Is that acceptance as you often write?

          (3) Or would you accept and not raise questions with regards to women whose choice it is to slay the unborn life developing inside of themselves, because to do otherwise would speedily be made into an occasion where you might be called upon to prove some point (i.e The sanctity of life/when does the developing fetus deserve to be called truly human).

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        • oldschool: I thank you for reading my articles. I write because I like writing. If people read it or not, I will continue to write for the enjoyment of it. I know not everyone who reads my articles will agree with me, and who knows, a year from now I may not agree with how I feel now, and that is OK. I just want to be up-front with you, I do not engage in long discussions or debates. Quite frankly, I do not have the time and I do not write for such reasons. Truthfully, this will probably be the longest reply you get from me, so again, thanks for reading and thanks for commenting.

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        • “I know not everyone who reads my articles will agree with me, and who knows, a year from now I may not agree with how I feel now, and that is OK.”

          That’s okay insofar as your personal growth is concerned, for sure. Furthermore, I can promise on my own behalf my views shall be shifting or altered in the upcoming years, however, that doesn’t mean a wholesale disregarding of said views, nor that I’ll disagree with myself how you write about you and your views, rather I’m certain my understanding will for time become richer and more profound, like learning to appreciate the glory of God all the more for having known Him just a day longer! Now, that’s okay, as you wrote. Yet, if you were publicly by your approach immunizing people against the Gospel message, that wouldn’t be okay, correct? That would be the furthest thing from alright. That’s what my earlier questions have been prompting you to answer, meaning to say it’s not love to hand the drunk a bottle, the stripper a dollar bill and an atheist a bland, lifeless, secular sort of preaching. That’s not to slam your articles, but rather many of your comments. They’re simply you agreeing with a wealth of untruths.

          I’m asking you by way of my replies if your own messages make sense to you given a Biblical Worldview, that’s how I’m approaching you. You’re writing about love and acceptance, due to which I, being legitimately involved, write “Can you explain what you mean by love and acceptance?” Upon which you simply ignore the question, is avoiding the question done in love? This is a conversation (not a debate) about God, God is Love, yet you’re seemingly discomforted to even discuss God.

          I’m waiting on you to honestly interact with these messages in the best way you’re able (as I’m already doing), and as a result of you trying there’s going to be less confusion, less mystery and more truth, and isn’t that something thoroughly Christian?

          Your replies needn’t be an essay, rather anything actually answering my questions would be sufficient. Would you set aside your aversion for proving points so to rescue an unborn child from an abortion doctor’s instruments? And is to do that unloving, is it unloving to kindly tell someone what they’re doing is going to kill her baby if indeed it is going to kill her baby? In a vast many of these cases women and girls are being pressurized by feckless boyfriends into slaying their child, and again you’d have to convince the boyfriend too that what they’re doing is wrong. Is it unloving to take up that cause and come into conflict with these people, even unintended conflict caused by their rage at being asked to rethink their decision? Surely not, is it? When two sincere, open minded Christians exchange ideas in a public space the only “winner” is the knowledge of God!

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        • OSC, DWR has clearly stated that he does not want to debate with you. You will respect his boundaries, or you will not be commenting on my blog any more.

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    • Now, Alex, I’ve already had to correct your misuse of the words atheism, atheist, Christianity, Christian, faith and evidence, don’t say I’m going to have to explain the word debate in addition. DWR is a big boy, they’re married and everything, meaning they’re grown up enough to ignore a communication for whatever reason they choose. Your message is now saying DWR has some sort of human right to not have kindly posed questions posed to them on an online comments section. You’re writing rather than ignore a polite invitation to further explain the claims they’re making, DWR should be protected by an internet overseer who shields him from inquiries over points they have raised though clearly cannot justify. Your Orwellian style reply, especially in light of your recent complaints about people shutting down conversation, is just so ironic and bizarre, perhaps simply to save yourself embarrassment you may want to erase the whole thing. DWR’s “boundaries” are being endangered (how scary). You’re picturing boundaries which are violated by the mere asking of polite questions, then shutting down posters who aren’t conforming by claiming they’ve overstepped your definition of where the boundaries are. That’s just classic. One of my favorite bloggers in a more lucid post would say to DWR: “you’re just making yourself look bad. You’re conceding that you don’t have good responses to their points by deflecting instead of engaging. You’re making it painfully obvious that you are unwilling to change your mind no matter what anyone says.”

      Or the very same writer would reply to your last message by saying: “shutting down the conversation in the face of dissent strongly implies that they are full of shit.” (Anything in the quotes sounding familiar?) To delete comments or block posters would really be the last humiliation your position could take. By now you’re showing yourself and your small community to be everything you supposedly hate, that being badly misinformed, prejudiced, know nothing know it alls who uncritically parrot notions they have heard without even the faintest knowledge of the things they’re affirming. Although you can add another achievement to the above list, threatening to silence non-conforming voices who politely ask questions over issues the community raised though cannot answer. Even our exchange now can’t be listed as a debate, mostly because you’re rebutting yourself.

      AB wrote: “DWR has clearly stated that he does not want to debate with you.”

      Alex Black responds to Alex Black on the subject of disagreeing: “disagreeing with someone does not have to end a conversation . . . we could discuss our reasons for disagreeing, or he could explain to me why this particular claim is important. He responded by deleting my comment.”

      AB wrote: “You will respect his boundaries, or you will not be commenting on my blog any more.”

      But Alex Black returns fire against Alex Black’s point: “I still don’t even understand why people think this claim is so important, to defend it with such fervor and silencing tactics.”

      Has Alex Black had enough yet, or will Alex Black let the lead slip?! I’m not much of a gambling man, but in this commentator’s humble opinion, the smart money is on Alex Black. 😉

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      • OSC, I highly value when people are willing to express dissenting opinions on my blog. I value this even more when they are civil, provide good reasons to back up their position, and make me think. I also love being able to find common ground with those who have different viewpoints and positions than mine. Let me assure you that your dissenting positions have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I choose to moderate your comments.

        On the other hand, the way you present your positions has everything to do with it. Not respecting boundaries is a huge part of this, and your interaction with DWR is only the latest incident. After I had expressed a desire to discontinue conversing with you on your blog, I stopped commenting there, but you then followed me back to my own blog to continue debating. That’s fair enough when I had written a post relevant to the conversation we had been having on your blog, except you never seem willing to let things lie when I have had enough of talking and need a break. This is the second time you have brought another commenter on my blog into our debates when I haven’t replied quickly enough for you.

        Aside from the boundaries thing, I am increasingly getting the impression that nothing I can possibly say will actually change your mind. It’s no fun to debate if you feel like the other person isn’t willing to listen to you and consider your viewpoint.

        Further, you keep twisting my words to say things that were never intended. You misrepresent my positions. You talk in a patronizing manner. You work in subtle insults that are hard to call you out for, which is even more annoying than direct insults.

        For instance, you compare my very lenient moderation (I have yet to actually delete, block, or modify a single comment from you!) over the manner in which your dissenting opinions are presented to the unreasonably strict and adversarial moderation which I have complained about facing on a couple of other blogs merely for expressing a contradictory opinion and asking hard questions.

        Now, as for the boundaries thing. When these bloggers moderated my comments in a way which shut down the conversation and felt very unreasonable and unfair to me… I did not continue posting on their blog. I did not attempt to continue the conversation after it had been shut down. Even if I find their actions very unfair, I still respect their boundaries by not seeking to continue a conversation which they very clearly do not want to have. Further, their blogs are their own spaces–they can moderate them however they wish. Similarly, my blog is my space. I can moderate it how I like, and I can use it to vent my frustrations when I am displeased with how another blogger moderated my comments.

        I am not averse to having further debate. But this is my space, and if you want to keep commenting here, you need to respect that, and you need to respect me. You could start by just giving me a break for a while–don’t attempt to initiate any conversations, and wait patiently for me to respond to the points you have already brought up. If nothing else, I’ll be posting about that On Guard book at some point soon.

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        • I intend this reply to be fairly brief, and rather than follow my natural inclination, which is to tear apart everything seemingly contradictory, hypocritical or against what appears your own methodology, I’m instead going to set you up for some future reply in which you may state your case, vent your frustrations or simply admit to having erred, which as everybody knows is human.

          You replied: “It’s no fun to debate if you feel like the other person isn’t willing to listen to you and consider your viewpoint.” Two short answers to your reply here, it’s my replies which interact with yourself and even DWR, and it’s that interest which ends up unraveling much of the material, whereas to glibly agree with everything you write, which has often been done by others, wouldn’t simply be dull, cowardly and a sign of not giving a hoot about you or your views, it would also be truly rude (not simply the subtle rude you think in my messages). Secondly, you I’m certain remember my message concerning the marketplace of ideas, and indeed the currency of said marketplace, meaning for you to change my mind you only need to do as I’ve already asked (i.e have something to deserve that change). Peer pressure and calling me a meanie just won’t do.

          So, I wish you a pleasant evening, moreover, I shall await something you yourself considered substantive, even something worthy of changing a person’s mind. Until then, your many posts about you and your posters feeling insecure, set upon, or endangered by my subtle attacks, attacks which surely are as easily found as the loch ness monster (and twice as deadly no doubt), will go unanswered. Doing otherwise would be unproductive I imagine, after all the Lord speaks to a person’s mind and heart with or without a loud mouth like myself or a sweetie pie like DWR.

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